My guest today is David Bernstein. David is a professor at George Mason University Law School and the executive director of their liberty and Law Centre. His new book is called "Classified: The Untold Story of Racial Classification in America". Topics covered in this episode include the definition of race and the historical origins of America's Big Five racial and ethnic categories, which are Asian American, Black, Hispanic, American Indian, and White. We discuss the problems with all of these categories and how those problems manifest in race-based affirmative action programs and race-based social spending in general. We talk about the phenomenon of racial fraud trials where judges have to determine the race of individuals seeking to qualify for certain programs. We discuss the malleability of racial identity, and how commonly our racial identities can change in response to incentives. We also go on to discuss the prospect of what David calls "a separation of race and state". I really enjoyed this conversation and I hope you do too. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices