Dr Susan Friedman is our guest for this conversation about her recent article: “Why Animals Need Trainers Who Adhere to the Least Intrusive Principle: Improving Animal Welfare and Honing Trainers’ Skills” This is an update of her 2004 article: “What’s Wrong With This Picture? Effectiveness Is Not Enough”. When Susan began consulting at zoos and other animal care facilities, effectiveness was often the first and only consideration. Does the procedure get the job done? Does it get the animal moved from one enclosure to another? The answer might be yes, but at what cost? If you use a water hose, what is the fallout? What opportunities for improved welfare have you given up? Effectiveness is not enough. The hierarchy of strategies for humane intervention puts the individual’s welfare front and center. We explore the role that ethics plays in our training choices. How do you balance ethical considerations with scientific inquiry? Susan is revisiting this subject in her new article. We’re asking her what has changed? What are the updates or the elements that she wants to highlight as she revisits the hierarchy of procedural interventions.