Humans can have a complex relationship with technology: tools like smartphones make our lives easier, but they can also be a source of anxiety or dependence. The internet can be an amazing place, or it can be a doom scrolling nightmare. And then there’s the always looming threat that our jobs–even the ones we thought only humans could do, like making art–could be lost to automation. Kevin Roose is a tech journalist who writes about the intersection of tech, business, and culture. In today’s episode, he talks about the shift of technology’s role in our lives and how we can set up boundaries with our devices to regain our autonomy. He also shares why he’s optimistic about the future, and his view on how futureproofing your job in an automated world has less to do with sharpening up our coding skills and more to do with leaning into our shared humanity. His new book, “Future Proof: 9 Rules for Humans in the Age of Automation” is out now.