Hot take: Nobody is inherently a good leader. Being a leader is a learned skill. What does it really take to be a good leader?  It’s not about being perfect, having all the answers, or walking in like a natural-born boss! Leadership is messy, vulnerable, and learned.  In this episode, my unofficial co-host (and leadership guru) Jessica Winder is back to break it all down.  We talk about why vulnerability is a must (not an option), how to lead when you have zero authority, and why leadership isn’t a natural-born trait—it’s a skill you grow over time. Now, Working Not Working is helping to keep that talent with NTRNL— the new platform that unlocks employee passions and ignites productivity. So you can see your people as they see themselves: as humans, not headcount. Visit seeyourpeople.com to learn more or book a demo. 00:01:35 - Jessica’s Background  00:03:45 - One Thing That HR People Should Rethink 00:06:30 - What Does it Mean to be a Leader? 00:11:57 - How Jessica’s Leadership Style Evolved Over the Years 00:16:13 - When Jessica Realized Leadership as Her Zone of Genius 00:19:20 - Common Myths About Leadership, Debunked 00:23:38 - What Qualities Differentiate a Good Leader From a Great Leader? 00:30:40 - Balancing Empathy and Decision-making as a Leader 00:36:48 - Advice for People Stepping Into Their First Leadership Role 00:38:27 - What Leadership Could Look Like in 5-10 Years And if you love I Hate It Here, sign up to Hebba’s newsletter! It’s for jaded, overworked, and emotionally burnt-out HR/People Operations professionals needing a little inspiration. https://workweek.com/discover-newsletters/i-hate-it-here-newsletter/   And if you love the podcast, be sure to check out https://www.youtube.com/@ihateit-here for even more exclusive insider content! Follow Jessica: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessicadwinder/ Follow Hebba:  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ihateit-here/videos LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/hebba-youssef Twitter: https://twitter.com/hebbamyoussef