Author and journalist Jacques Pauw joined me to discuss his new book, Our Poisoned Land. It is a sequel to his previous bestseller, The President's Keepers. It was a wide-ranging but also focused conversation that could have been longer. I want you to read the book before we debate it further. This interview won't spoil your reading experience. It gives you a sense of what the book is about.  Here is a non-exhaustive list of questions I explored with Pauw: Is the much discussed excerpt about the EFF a distraction from the main issues in the book or a fair reflection of his intentions as author? How does he respond to critics who think that unethical journalism, related to an incident at the V&A Waterfront in Cape Town, undermines his journalistic integrity and credibility? What are examples of the linkages between money, politics, and the subversion of the constitution? Why is PRASA such a big focus of the book? What are the implications of the empirical evidence of state capture specifically for the leadership of President Cyril Ramaphosa? Is the EFF a bona fide political party or a criminal enterprise? Etc. Enjoy!