Lone Star Lawyers Daniel Hare: Founder of the Texas lawyer search firm Varsity Search

Kristen Mynar, a board certified estate planning and probate attorney and partner with Naman, Howell, Smith & Lee in Waco, joins us on today's show. Kristen talks about maximizing your mentors, caring about your clients, and what she looks for when hiring (hint: it's not on a resume!).

Her firm/practice

Offices in Waco, FW, San Antonio, Austin
Most of the attorneys specialize in something, and there isn't much they don't do
Her typical client has high-net worth and a closely held business, so you wind up working with them both on the estate planning and business related issues.
Board certified as soon as she could, five years after starting practice
Law is always changing so always have to stay on top of it; changing administrations can have an impact certainly so watching for whether new laws get passed at the federal level
Current exemptions are at all-time highs but set to expire and be cut in half in 2026.
Waco is a great community; friendly/competent lawyers; way more money here than you would think, and those people keep their money here.
Does a lot of work with partners in the other offices, as well as with clients in the small communities around Waco. Also succession planning for client businesses.
Estate Planning can touch a lot of practice areas

Advice to lawyers in practice

Her grammar was a problem in the beginning! So she got red inked on everything for three years.
She had great mentors and was a sponge. She listened/learned. Did push back when it looked like there was more than one way to do something.
Fortunate to have someone who wanted to teach her how to practice.
Much of her practice is drafting/writing, and she kept making the same mistakes at first. So she made a list of all the mistakes she would typically make, and then before submitting anything to the partners would go over that list to see if she had made any of those mistakes.
Learn to compensate for yourself
Be humble
Take a minute and think about it! See if you can figure it out. The reader should be able to tell that you at least thought through it.
RE: Business development: just be out in the community and make sure people know what you do. Offer to go speak to different groups. Do a good job and care about the client!

Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market

Not a big believer in resumes.
In interviews, looking for personality. Are you a person that I want to practice with? Personable? Easy to talk with?

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: ability to use their brain
What habit has been key to your success: keeping my time every day
Favorite app/productivity tool: N/A - all apps are anti-productive
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: mothering, (low-carb) cooking, lounging
Favorite legal movie: Bowl? The Case for Christ

Thanks again to Kristen Mynar for joining us on today's show!

Erin Brockovich is an outstanding 2000 film based on a true story about a woman who never gives up, doesn't take no for an answer, and helps get justice for an entire town. Robert and Daniel are joined by special guest Hope Mustakim to break it all down!

Check out Hope's Waco ISD campaign page! https://www.hope4wacoisd.com/

Spencer Edwards, a shareholder and trial lawyer with The Hudgins Law Firm in Houston, joins us on today's show. Spencer talks about how to conduct yourself in trial, being eager to learn, and demonstrating work ethic in an interview.

His firm/practice

97 Baylor Law grad (25 years of practice)
Catastrophic Injury / Wrongful Death trial lawyer (though hasn't tried one since 2019 due to COVID)
COVID has essentially created a backlog of cases and trials, and that hasn't stopped new cases from coming in
Has a case set for trial March 1st
The shift in the judiciary has made an impact on the practice (R to D in Harris County), which initially meant actual trial lawyers were on the bench which was helpful. But now, there has been a shift in competence, experience, and consistency as well, which creates a different dynamic
More high dollar verdicts in recent years has injected uncertainty on the defense side in valuing cases as well as emboldened plaintiff's lawyers

Advice to lawyers in practice

Remember that you are going to work with/against lawyers/judges again, so don't be a jerk!
Chill
No need to be super aggressive
Only takes one moment to damage your reputation
Throw inside if you must, but don't throw a beanball!
If another attorney does that to you, however, you have to be willing to push back, especially in front of the jury
If rules of procedure/evidence don't apply, then they aren't going to apply, so don't be the only one confined by them
Also have to be prepared for rulings against you, even if they are clearly wrong
Do it with a smile on your face; don't lose your cool; don't try to embarrass the judge; you can get makeup calls!
Keep perspective
You are going to lose cases, even some you should have won (you'll probably win some you should have lost)
Don't let losses devastate you
Exude confidence in the courtroom; act like you feel like you can/should win
Don't be afraid to ask dumb questions / pride is dangerous to a young lawyer
And ask why
Don't make the same mistake twice
If something needs to get done right now, that might not be the best time to push back/challenge/ask why...just do it! Find the right time/context.
The best way to develop business is to do good work; and then watch the way lawyers at your firm develop their business and imitate that
Learn how to talk on the phone! Older partners/clients expect it and are used to it

Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market

He's not a big resume guy!
At their firm, a couple of younger lawyers review all the resumes and decide who to interview, and so he rarely sees the resumes. Also, law schools vary with their grading scales, so it is hard to compare candidates based on that
Impressed with work history (even in high school and college) that demonstrates work ethic
Important to bring up these things in an interview if you realize it could help you, since these items are likely not on your legal resume

Final Thought

From Professor Matt Dawson's speech to his law school graduating class: "I'm a smart guy, but that's not why I have been successful. I am successful because I have always worked hard. Don't get outworked. Don't let the other side beat you by outworking you." Great trial lawyer advice.

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: Eager to learn
What habit has been key to your success: Get some sleep
Favorite app/productivity tool: Whiteboard
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: Baseball / Astros
Favorite legal movie: My Cousin Vinny

Thanks again to Spencer Edwards for joining us on today's show!

Dave talks about being known as a trial lawyer, being proactive, and conversational interviews.

Christian Dennie, a sports lawyer, commercial litigator, and partner at Barlow, Garsek, & Simon in Fort Worth, joins us on today's show. Christian talks about understanding the case, demonstrating grit, and how the new name, image, and likeness legislation is playing out thus far.

His firm/practice

Firm is headquartered in Fort Worth with a Southlake office
Commercial firm (no criminal)
He focuses on sports clients but does a number of things under that umbrella including arbitration
Fort Worth / Tarrant County legal practice
Small town with over 1M people
Plenty of large businesses
Lots of lifers
More local/Texas based firms
Collegial and supportive of one another
New name, image, and likeness NCAA rules and state laws, as well as potential changes to the NCAA constitution are significant issues

Advice to lawyers in practice

Have someone that will take you under their wing and serve as a mentor to you and help you learn/grow
You win lawsuits in the library and not the courtroom
Sometimes the law is not on your side but you need to be creative because things need to change
Can happen in the courtroom with a decision, OR
In a settlement or outside of the courtroom...can be just as good as a decision
Take the case and figure it out
It's not about sitting in your office 18 hours a day to show that you are committed; but it's not about the hours
You are a problem solver
Ideal is to be at a law firm that has enough work that you aren't having to "create time" to meet your billable hour requirements
Daniel recalls former guest Jim Chester's advice to never leave a partner's office without the DDB (deadline / deliverable / budget).
Important for the client to understand what they are asking as well
Formulate a game plan early for how you are going to generate the clients you want
Put yourself around the clients you want, but with the expertise you have even if that is different than what you ultimately want to do
Understand the culture/business/environment of the clients you want to serve

Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market

Demonstrate the work you have done
How does your work history match what the firm needs
Is there a cultural fit?
If you played sports in college or beyond that stands out to him because of the grit factor
Trial experience, judicial clerkships, real estate deals/closings, employment contract experience all looks good
If you don't have those things, do you have the interest, curiosity, and willingness to transition

Sports Law 

Not a lot of large national deals yet
2nd Circuit Court of Appeals / Gatto case
Lots of local/regional deals
Just making sure they comply with state law, because if they don't then they won't comply with NCAA rules
Contract can't extend beyond eligibility and there are multiple places in agreements where perpetual licenses are inserted
Bonuses based on results are not permissible and some of the early contracts had those in there
Schools are starting to get a better grasp of it
Texas' law specifically says you can't use logos/marks which can cause issues
Some schools are trying to figure out how to permit the use
Houston Travis Scott concert
Was there adequate security?
What does the license on the ticket say and do we have an enforceable arbitration clause?
What if you are forced to click a link to go out and read the fine print of the license?
Insurance?
The NCAA recommendations on constitution/bylaw changes is a major issue in college athletics; especially if we see more power pushed down to the conference level

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: Ability to roll up the sleeves and get after it; willing to do what it...

Anne Heaviside, a managing director and legal recruiter with ELR in Houston, joins us on today's show. Anne talks about the lateral legal market, work from home policies, and top tips for candidates. 

Her firm and role

ELR Legal is in the Tanglewood area of Houston
Specializes in 2-10 year lawyers in Texas law firms / mostly Houston / mostly Big Law (AmLaw 200)
Got her start practicing law, including at McGlinchy Stafford. She then took over the recruiting role there before stepping out to work as a legal recruiter on the outside

Legal Market Update

2019 was good as was the start of 2020
COVID put everything on hold until about November 2020
November things opened up, especially in the Big Law corporate world (Can you say SPACs?!)
Capital Markets
M&A
Private Equity
Debt Finance
2021 only got hotter
Big signing bonuses ($10k-$50k)
There are not enough corporate associates in Texas for the demand
The need is new work. Clients have more demand from Big Law firms and there aren't enough 3-6 year associates with the necessary skills.
Record number of lateral moves in Houston and Dallas
Plus new Big Law firms opening up in Austin
September hit and those associates have worked between 2000-2800 hours already in 2021 and are no longer taking recruiter calls; they are waiting for their year-end bonus before lateralling at the start of 2022.
Real Estate an Executive Comp/Employee Benefits have gotten hot
Big Law litigation is cool/slow
Litigation boutiques are hiring but they are super picky (think Big Law requirements)
Davis Polk raised the first year starting salaries from $190k to $205k and Cravath (the previous trend setter) matched (as have several others now). Has led to some mid/small firms rethink their comp.
Big Law v. Small Law
Corporate v. Litigation
Hardly any small/mid corporate firms
No sign of slowing down in 2022
In this market, small/mid associates and in-house lawyers CAN make a move to Big Law
Work/Office Arrangements
Flexibility is here to stay (in Big Law)
How flexible is the question
AmLaw 50 is still at home in Houston or back in the office by choice
Multiple office firms across the county/internationally have a hard time making different policies for different offices
AmLaw 200 will likely move to a 3/2 (three days in the office and two at home)
Though new associates will likely be required to be in the office for the training/mentorship/culture/etc.
Mid-levels and Senior associates will likely push for even more
Small firms
Will likely have more variety of policies
More likely to be in the office than the Big Law firms
Challenges to flex work
Lack of integration within the firm
What happens when promotion time comes or the work slows down and layoffs are required? Will the person who has been at home be disadvantaged versus the one who has been in the office?
How can we replicate the in-office benefits and experiences that we don't want to lose?

Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market

This is not OCI anymore
Not tell me about yourself or what practice to you want to go in
There is a specific need they are looking to fill
So firm needs to understand exact experience
If you have stellar academics (great grades at a great law school), list that first. Otherwise start with your law firm experience
3-6 bullets under each position communicating exactly what you do
Your role in what types of deals/cases
You can take out the bullets under internships or clerkships if you need space
If you have been practicing for at least 3+ years you need a deal sheet
Know as much about the job you are applying for as possible so you can tailor your experience to the need
Litigators definitely need a writing sample
GPA on...