Steven Rinella talks with Michael Tewes, Neal Wilkins, Ryan Callaghan, and Janis Putelis. Topics discussed: the ocelot as an animal that's unknown to most folks; how it hurts like hell to get bitten by a cat; chicken-ocelot bonding; the ocelot population in the US being less than 100 individuals; how mammalogists have more fun than ornithologists; a mad obsession with cats; reproduction and the minimum birth rate to maintain a population; the effect of declines in genetic variation; all the different ways of losing an ocelot; how conservation is dependent on private landowners; maintaining the ocelot population on the East Foundation's Texas ranch holdings; is the ESA antiquated what it means to be pro-ESA reform; sex, hunger, and fear; the insane number of birds killed by feral and domestic cats; a hope that ocelots will stick around; how to incentivize conservation when you can't ever go to the place in need of conserving; and more.   Connect with Steve and MeatEater Steve on Instagram and Twitter MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and Youtube Shop MeatEater Merch See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.