Melissa Perri welcomes Jocelyn Miller on this episode of the Product Thinking Podcast. Jocelyn, Founder and CEO of JM Coaching & Training, is a product leader turned career coach whose passion is helping product managers get “into the right roles, so their zone of genius can be unlocked and unleashed.” She shares her insights on common career roadblocks, what it looks like to define and step into your ideal product role, how to tackle burnout and imposter syndrome, and why asking existential questions about your own career is key.  Here are some key points you’ll hear Melissa and Jocelyn talk about: How Jocelyn started in the field of product management and career coaching. [2:00] A big issue for product managers when managing their careers is the feeling of being stagnant. Jocelyn's company has created a program to deal with this exact problem. "One of the things that I love about it is that your current place of employment…just becomes one of the options," she adds. The process allows individuals who feel stuck or unhappy in their current positions to get positions that didn't exist before, and which brings them fulfillment. [4:36] Jocelyn walks through her framework for helping clients yield their desired outcome and position. [10:36] When advocating for yourself, you have to figure out what you actually want in your career. Knowing what you don't want is also important information that will guide your path. [12:32] "Assume you can do anything and then decide how you want to make that happen," Jocelyn says. [17:00] Jocelyn talks about the various paths she's seen people take, aside from people management and what allows them to progress. [18:59] Progress looks different for different people. A main reason is compensation, but a larger part is for the recognition and appreciation of growing at a rapid pace. In evaluating progress, think about whether the mission speaks to you, and whether you have the level of impact on the world you want to have. Think about how you want to use the skills you've acquired during your growth. [22:23] Jocelyn tells Melissa that burnout makes you feel like you're putting out more than you're getting back. If you are experiencing a burnout cycle, you need to change your approach to work. [25:40] If you’re burnt out, it is important to step back; however, stepping back can be scary so it is good to get guidance. Jocelyn also encourages taking a break, but doing so in a way that you're supporting and building yourself up. [30:06] Jocelyn advised listeners how to deal with imposter syndrome. Think about how you're advocating for yourself, she remarks. "If you can't advocate for yourself, your influence over your team will be quite limited," she says. [35:00] Budding leaders often fall back on using the same methods that they had success with before. They also commonly have a need for approval. "If you then transition into leadership and are looking for the external guidance and validation of worthiness, or trying to chase after things in that way, you cannot be an effective leader," Jocelyn stresses. [38:47] Relationships are critical in leadership. Doing too much will burn you out fast, so establish relationships to help you finish projects faster. [41:32] Being a leader is about bringing out the best in others, and creating a culture where everyone’s contribution matters. [42:49] Leaders should be able to create other leaders who can take over. This will free up time for you to be creative and it will make things easier for you overall. [45:12] Resources Jocelyn Miller | LinkedIn | Twitter JM Coaching & Training