The Dissociative Table Various hosts and guests

This episode is the second in a four-part series, featuring a conversation with Sander Kamphuis, CEO and founder of Moovd. He and his colleagues have created an AI-driven EMDR software called WeMind. WeMind is already being used by thousands of therapists with thousands of clients, has involved some of the biggest names in EMDR (Ad de Jongh, for instance), and is the subject of intense academic research.



This second episode begins to explore complexities and ethical issues with AI-optimized therapy. For more general information on WeMind, a demonstration, its basis in Working Memory Taxation theory, and how AI optimizes trauma processing, please consult Episode 204. You can link to Moovd's own description and research at www.moovd.nl/en.



So, again, this episode begins to pose ethical questions regarding the use of WeMind, especially with newly trained EMDR therapists, or consultees in training. For instance, if we learn by making mistakes, what happens to learning when AI makes the mistakes for us? Subsequent episodes will delve even deeper into complexities, including ethical concerns regarding the inevitable development of AI-controlled software that cuts out the therapist entirely. That is, WeMind has produced robust results for clients with even CPTSD, and as a result, EMDR is only the beginning for AI and complex trauma. Regardless of what therapy you use, these four episodes will be of great interest.



Episode highlights include:



-The importance of outcome studies, given the prevalence of "fake cures" in brief treatment that does not adequately explore attachment wounds and highly dissociated early trauma

-AI as an augmentation of clinician skill, rather than a replacement

-Outcome studies with EMDR that integrates exposure in a European manner, something often shocking to US clinicians

-Surprising Jungian connections?

-The host's criticisms of existing research on WeMind

-The host's concerns regarding the use of WeMind with newly trained therapists, as mentioned above

-The possible development of a large language model-based "fake client" of variable complexity, to increase the confidence of new EMDR clinicians, and to further the training of highly skilled clinicians



These episodes featuring Mr. Kamphuis represent a considered and impartial exploration, not an advertisement. It is important to note (as usual) that neither TDT, nor its hosts and associates, have received financial compensation for these episodes. Advertisement of the product's free trial is intended to help you make up your own mind. TDT's hosts have directly tested WeMind to avoid absolute naiveté, both in real clinical settings, and in a controlled, experimental manner to test its limits.



In future (as in past) episodes, guests will offer counterpoints to Mr. Kamphuis's views, and this video is a dialogue, rather than an endorsement of his perspectives. Likewise, The Dissociative Table does not endorse the views of its hosts, nor do any professional organizations to which the hosts or guests might belong. Join the discussion of this episode and others at the anonymous, free, clinicians-only discussion board by emailing dissociativetable@gmail.com.



The music in this episode is taken from the song "The Glowing Sea," from Cracked Machine's 2024 album Wormwood. The band has generously donated rights to their music to TDT in support of increased global access to effective trauma treatment. Stream or download at: https://crackedmachine.bandcamp.com/

This episode is the first in a four-part series, featuring a conversation with Sander Kamphuis, CEO and founder of Moovd. He and his colleagues have created an AI-driven EMDR software called WeMind. WeMind is already being used by thousands of therapists with thousands of clients, has involved some of the biggest names in EMDR (Ad de Jongh, for instance), and is the subject of intense academic research.



This episode contains an introduction to WeMind, how WeMind might develop further in the near future, and a discussion of variant European and American approaches to trauma therapy.



Three subsequent episodes will delve deep into complexities, including possible ethical concerns related to using AI with any therapy for complex trauma, not only EMDR. WeMind has produced robust results for clients with PTSD, and as a result, EMDR is only the beginning for AI and complex trauma. Regardless of what therapy you use, these four episodes will be of great interest.



WeMind is based on the Working Memory Taxation theory of how EMDR operates, and its AI reacts to clients' input on WMT tasks to optimize reprocessing. Initial research indicates a 49% decrease in the time needed to desensitize traumatic memories in PTSD clients (EMDR Phase 4), and research is ongoing to investigate the use with other phases of EMDR, and with more complex clients.



This and subsequent episodes are a considered and impartial exploration, not an advertisement. In later episodes, as mentioned, some very hard questions are asked, and admirably answered by Mr. Kamphuis. It is important to note (as usual) that neither TDT, nor its hosts and associates, have received financial compensation for these episodes. TDT has also directly tested WeMind to avoid absolute naiveté, both in real clinical settings, and in a controlled, experimental manner to test its limits.



Highlights include:



-An introduction to WeMind, including the Working Memory Taxation theory of EMDR that forms the foundations of AI optimization, and how the AI models the client's mind



-The technological implications for an age-related "changing of the guard" in the therapy world



-A brief WeMind demo, with video of the interface



-Differences in European and US clinicians' attitude toward the integration of exposure with EMDR versus extensive "resourcing" prior to reprocessing, with possible reasons and motivations for this



-Recent research and upcoming studies-Sander's argument for the importance of incorporating AI into EMDR, as drawn from the established use of AI in radiology.



Sander's company Moovd, with extensive information on WeMind and access to research, can be found at www.moovd.nl/e. Moovd offers a free trial of WeMind, such that clinicians can decide for themselves.



In future (as in past) episodes, guests will offer counterpoints to Mr. Kamphuis's views, and this video is a dialogue, rather than an endorsement of his perspectives. Likewise, The Dissociative Table does not endorse the views of its hosts, nor do any professional organizations to which the hosts or guests might belong.



Join the discussion of this episode and others at the anonymous, free, clinicians-only discussion board by emailing dissociativetable@gmail.com.



The music in this episode is taken from the song "Burning Mountain," from Cracked Machine's 2024 album Wormwood. The band has generously donated rights to their music to TDT in support of increased global access to effective trauma treatment. Stream or download at: https://crackedmachine.bandcamp.com/

This episode, "The 'T' in N.E.S.T.: Preverbal trauma, narrative, and esoterica," is the fourth part (of four) of a conversation with Dr. Sandra Paulsen, arguably EMDR's most well-known authority on complex dissociative issues.

In this episode, she speaks about the topic she is most widely known for: the integration of Ego-State Therapy with EMDR. Dr. Paulsen is an active clinician, prolific author, and educator. Her lengthy CV includes dozens of published articles in peer-reviewed journals, and can be found at paulsenpsychology.com. Her more accessible books are most EMDR clinicians' introduction to treating complex trauma. A "cartooning psychologist," she also has an Etsy store! (sandrapaulsenphdart.etsy.com)

Highlights include:

-Somatic ego cathexis: speaking to parts (of the body!)

-Continued discussion of working with perpetrator introjects

-The early trauma protocol for EMDR to address preverbal attachment injury, including before birth (sounds impossible, but supported by neuroscience)

-Repairing early narrative with imaginal techniques and the "felt sense" of secure attachment at the time, as opposed to reparenting interventions that work from the adult mind.

-Dr. Paulsen's strategically-oriented perspective on the role of archetypes and dreams in understanding complex trauma

-Resolving nightmares quickly

-John Watkins' "tuna processing plant" theory of titrating the reprocessing of traumatic memories with ego-state therapy

Dr. Paulsen's books, endorsed equipment, and art can be found at www.paulsenpsychology.com. Most of her online trainings are located at www.sfrankelgroup.com.

In future (as in past) episodes, guests will offer counterpoints to Dr. Paulsen's views, and this video is a dialogue, rather than an endorsement of his perspectives. Likewise, The Dissociative Table does not endorse the views of its hosts, nor do any professional organizations to which the hosts or guests might belong.

Join the discussion of this episode and others at the anonymous, free, clinicians-only discussion board by emailing dissociativetable@gmail.com.

The music in this episode is taken from the song "Eigenstate," from Cracked Machine's 2024 album Wormwood. The band has generously donated rights to their music in support of increased global access to effective trauma treatment. Stream or download at:
https://crackedmachine.bandcamp.com/

This episode, "The N.E.S.T. Model: Ego-State Therapy approaches for the dissociated 'S' (self)" is the third part (of four) of a conversation with Dr. Sandra Paulsen, arguably EMDR's most well-known authority on complex dissociative issues. In this episode, she speaks about the topic she is most widely known for: the integration of Ego-State Therapy with EMDR. Dr. Paulsen is an active clinician, prolific author, and educator. Her lengthy CV includes dozens of published articles in peer-reviewed journals, and can be found at paulsenpsychology.com. Her more accessible books are most EMDR clinicians' introduction to treating complex trauma. A "cartooning psychologist," she also has an Etsy store!
Dr. Paulsen's work, besides being most EMDR therapists' first step in treating complex trauma, includes dozens of published scientific articles and host of books and book chapters. She has hosted a large number online trainings integrating Ego-State Therapy, attachment theory, and the work of Jaak Panksepp, uniquely having one foot in neuroscience and one foot in more esoteric aspects of treatment. Many trainings are available on www.sfrankelgroup.com. Her most popular works provide accessible training to beginning clinicians, and her reputation as a "cartooning psychologist" comes from these. A more complete bio is available on her website, www.paulsenpsychology.com, where you can also purchase her most popular books. She also is active on social media--and for her cartoons, on Etsy as well! (sandrapaulsenphdart.etsy.com)

Highlights include:

-The integral connection between Ego-State work and somatic techniques discussed in the last episode

-Accessing traumatic affect and dealing with blocked processing by "interviewing the body"

-The misunderstanding of "ego energy" as a pseudo-spiritual or unscientific concept

-The scarcity of training resources in Ego-State Therapy, and where to find what exists

-The advantages of Ego-State Therapy over other methods of working with dissociative parts of the self

-A discussion of the common criticism that therapists create parts of self by suggestion in attachment-wounded clients

-A defense of working with parts of self based on demonstrable connections to physical intrusions of traumatic affect, and related changes that take place during successful treatment

Dr. Paulsen's books, endorsed equipment, and art can be found at www.paulsenpsychology.com. Most of her online trainings are located at www.sfrankelgroup.com.

In future (as in past) episodes, guests will offer counterpoints to Dr. Paulsen's views, and this video is a dialogue, rather than an endorsement of his perspectives. Likewise, The Dissociative Table does not endorse the views of its hosts, nor do any professional organizations to which the hosts or guests might belong.

Join the discussion of this episode and others at the anonymous, free, clinicians-only discussion board by emailing dissociativetable@gmail.com.

The music in this episode is taken from the song "Song of Artemis," from Cracked Machine's 2024 album Wormwood. The band has generously donated rights to their music in support of increased global access to effective trauma treatment. Stream or download at: https://crackedmachine.bandcamp.com/

This episode, "Mechanisms of healing: Flash, OCD, EMDR 2.0, and research validity" is the fourth part (of four) of a conversation with Dr. Phil Manfield. Dr. Manfield is now best known as the creator of the Flash Technique, and for decades has been one of the most influential EMDR educators worldwide.

Episode highlights include:

-Dr. Manfield presents an argument that Ad de Jongh's EMDR 2.0 is actually a more complex version of Flash, and shares some personal anectdotes.

-The remarkably successful treatment of OCD by non-specialist Flash practitioners is discussed, with the mechanism of healing contrasted with the most successful current methods.

-Criticisms are raised surrounding publication standards in the psychology literature, in that less-successful treatments promoted simply because they fit a particular research model. Dr. Manfield provides a shocking example that was recently exposed.

-The host and Dr. Manfield reflect on how the role of conversation between colleagues has been lost amid the divide of research and practice.

-A call is made for clinicians using any serious modality to explore how Flash can speed their process when heightened emotional response derails treatment.


Dr. Manfield is the author or editor of five books on psychotherapy, an international EMDRIA-Approved EMDR trainer, and creator of The Flash Technique. A more detailed bio is contained in the first episode of this series. His websites are www.flashtechnique.com, and www.emdrvideo.com.

The music in this episode is taken from the song "Jormundandr," from Cracked Machine's album Call of the Void. The band has generously donated rights to their music in support of increased global access to effective trauma treatment. Be sure to check out their new album, Wormwood, at: https://crackedmachine.bandcamp.com/

This episode, "The N.E.S.T. Model: Somatic approaches as essential to the fundamentally embodied nature of complex trauma," is the second part (of four) of a conversation with Dr. Sandra Paulsen, arguably EMDR's most well-known authority on complex dissociative issues. Dr. Paulsen is an active clinician, prolific author, and educator. Her more accessible books are most EMDR clinicians' introduction to treating complex trauma. A "cartooning psychologist," she also has an Etsy store!
Dr. Paulsen's work, besides being most EMDR therapists' first step in treating complex trauma, includes dozens of published scientific articles and host of books and book chapters. She has hosted a large number online trainings integrating Ego-State Therapy, attachment theory, and the work of Jaak Panksepp, uniquely having one foot in neuroscience and one foot in more esoteric aspects of treatment. Many trainings are available on www.sfrankelgroup.com. Her most popular works provide accessible training to beginning clinicians, and her reputation as a "cartooning psychologist" comes from these. A more complete bio is available on her website, www.paulsenpsychology.com, where you can also purchase her most popular books. She also is active on social media--and for her cartoons, on Etsy as well! (sandrapaulsenphdart.etsy.com)


Highlights include:

-Neurofeedback and similar (more affordable) interventions and equipment are discussed as helpful adjunct for efficient treatment.
-Dr. Paulsen mentions new research that may change psychiatrists' general opinion regarding being part of a treatment team with therapists treating complex trauma.
-Split-brain studies and hemispheric specialization are discussed as explanatory of "odd" symptoms, and as excellent for client psychoeducation/destigmatization.
-Misconceptions and myths surrounding so-called "repressed memories" are addressed, with the concept of highly-dissociated traumatic experience normalized.
-Dr. Paulsen describes the automatic dissociation-detecting nature of EMDR as a phenomenon leading to many clinicians seeking further education, such as that in her own trainings and books.

Dr. Paulsen's books, endorsed equipment, and art can be found at www.paulsenpsychology.com. Most of her online trainings are located at www.sfrankelgroup.com.

In future (as in past) episodes, guests will offer counterpoints to Dr. Paulsen's views, and this video is a dialogue, rather than an endorsement of his perspectives. Likewise, The Dissociative Table does not endorse the views of its hosts, nor do any professional organizations to which the hosts or guests might belong.

Join the discussion of this episode and others at the anonymous, free, clinicians-only discussion board by emailing dissociativetable@gmail.com.

The music in this episode is taken from the song "I, Cosmonaut," from Cracked Machine's album of the same name. The band has generously donated rights to their music in support of increased global access to effective trauma treatment.
https://crackedmachine.bandcamp.com/