In this episode, Ronn and Mike discuss Genesis 17 and the story of Ishmael. They explore the possibility that Ishamel made a covenant with a divine being other than Yahweh, even a god disloyal to Yahweh. They discuss the theological and historical implications of this view, particularly in relation to the rise of Muslim tradition and its attachment to Ishmael. The episode concludes with a discussion on the significance of circumcision, its meaning in the ancient world, and its possible significance as a sign of the covenant between Abraham and Yahweh.