TMI with Kevin Ryan Kevin Ryan

Kevin has a fun chat with Zach Rodgers, Editor-in-Chief and Co-Founder of Marketecture Media, a new media venture that helps people navigate the world of marketing technology. Zach also ran AdExchanger’s editorial operations and supported programming strategy for the company’s Programmatic IO and Industry Preview Events. Zach and Kevin discuss editorial independence, how Marketecture can help assist vendor conversations, and how Marketecture’s products and offerings can help both ad tech and marketing executives.
 
Takeaways:
[3:31] Zach believes in editorial independence and that there are still many strong journalists out there.
[10:50] How can AdvertisingWeek get better?
[13:32] What exactly is an oligarchy?
[14:32] As the economy turns down, unfortunately, the people that get fired first are often the ones with the creative and inventive thinker-type titles.
[20:35] Okay, what does it mean to be the Jenny to the industry’s Forrest Gump?
[22:43] Zach talks about Marketecture and how it cuts through the BS while providing people a platform to be curious and have genuine interactions. Marketecture can also help take the hocus pocus and hand waving away from the process, and help people understand the complex world of technology to make better vendor decisions.
[23:49] Zach breaks down the Marketecture pricing and the overall subscription model.
[28:48] What’s the plan for the future of the business?
 
Quotes:
“There are still strong journalists out there.” — 4:33 Zach “Long live editorial independence. I believe it will continue.” — 10:38 Zach  
Mentioned in This Episode:
Marketecture
Zach Rodgers
Star Wars: Be More Boba Fett: Always Get the Job Done, by Joseph Jay Franco

Jennifer Sey is an author, business executive, and retired artistic gymnast. She’s also known in the marketing world for spending a great deal of time with Levi Strauss, as she managed all aspects of the brand as brand president, including product. Jennifer and Kevin talk about the hypocrisy of woke capitalism, and why brands should focus on having open and transparent conversations with their audience, or just decide to make it more about the product and less about taking a stand on an issue they might not be ready to fully back up. Jennifer and Kevin discuss a few examples of brand campaigns that have gone wrong, and the consequences that often come with trying to use social justice in your marketing.
 
Takeaways:
[4:10] Jennifer was at Levi’s for close to 23 years and moved beyond marketing to end her time there as brand president. She was outspoken about school closures and restrictions on kids during the pandemic, and discusses being asked to leave and her thoughts about the situation.
[10:11] In a tweet celebrating Women’s Day, Levi Strauss turned off the comments once they faced backlash. Jennifer and Kevin discuss alternative measures that could have been taken, and how it demonstrated just a tiny ripple in the wave of the many brands that are hypocritical in their woke capitalism.
[11:09] If Jennifer was to lead a marketing division or company again, she would make sure that everything they said and did was true, and that they walked the talk, even if it was a decision that came with some risk.
[12:18] There is often a huge difference between what brands say, and what they actually do.
[14:14] You can actually build greater loyalty and a true connection with your audience when they feel like it’s a two-way relationship and that you are open to listening. When a brand turns off comments, this sends a message that they don’t want to have the conversation.
[18:12] Jennifer discusses how we can assign weight to some of the feedback you get, at what point does it lose value, and when should we just decide to not engage?
[27:38] In the same way that consumers can intend to purchase a product but not buy it, they can also say they won’t buy it and do the opposite.
[30:00] Nike got themselves into hot water when they posted about woman-related holidays, and some major incidents came out that showed they may not have supported women the way they postured to do.
[33:00] A lot of the time, the pressure at a brand is internal and CEOs can be intimated by younger employees pushing.
[42:15] What brands like Abercrombie and Victoria’s Secret did wrong to alienate certain consumers from the beginning.
[44:19] One of the problems with guru-led management can be how it’s used selectively.
[49:02] Consumers are not stupid, and they can pick up when there’s a gap between what companies put forward and how they act.
[55:18] The blowback that Pepsi got because of a poorly done ad campaign suggests and illustrates that there are limits to what people will tolerate in terms of borrowing themes and imagery from social justice to sell products.
 
Quotes:
“If I were to lead either a marketing division or company again, I would make sure that everything we said and did was true and that we walked the walk, even if it was a decision that came with some risk. I would also probably focus mostly on the product.” — Jennifer [11:09] “You can’t just ignore what you’ve been for decades. You’ve got to find a truth in it that can be made relevant today.” — Jennifer [45:19] “At the end of the day, you’ve got to market yourselves authentically.” [46:33]  
Mentioned in This Episode:
Jennifer Sey:
“DiGiorno Used a Hashtag About Domestic Violence to Sell Pizza”
Sey Everything
“Oh the Ratio!”
White Hot: The Rise and Fall of Abercrombie and Fitch
“God May Forgive: But Google Never Forgets”

Kevin welcomes Chris Cunningham, a true living legend in the digital space and a 20-year media and tech veteran who is a serial entrepreneur turned early-stage venture capitalist. Chris recently launched a $10 million early-stage venture to fund the C2V brand. He talks about how they select the brands in their portfolios. The guys give their real thoughts for better or worse on the Bay Area, comparing Shrek to Silicon Valley, and a few examples of the old economy legacy industries that are ripe for disruption. It’s a down-and-dirty discussion about disrupting the industries that may or may not be ready.
 
Takeaways:
[4:02] Chris discusses C2V and how they invest in verticals that have had stagnant productivity but are products and services we touch and utilize every day of our lives.
[6:57] What do Silicon Valley and Shrek have in common?
[7:24] San Francisco is oversaturated and overpriced, and deals are overvalued.
[10:00] It’s not just about the talent, but looking at the problems that are being solved and how they are going about solving those issues.
[14:08] Is it really mature to be investing in Web3 and NFTs?
[15:40] Chris talks about the process of finding companies to run.
[18:40] How has remote work and going virtual shifted things?
[19:31] Chris discusses deal flow and more on how they select the companies.
[24:01] Your deck is your best friend, and will then be the next step to possibly get you a 30-minute Zoom or phone call.
 
Quotes:
[5:56] “It’s dirty, dull, and dangerous because these verticals are extremely boring, very sleepy, not that sexy. And that's why we like them.” — Chris [7:24] “Listen. We don’t hate on the Bay Area or San Francisco, but here’s the truth. It’s oversaturated. It’s overpriced. Deals are overvalued. Founder expectations are absurd.” — Chris [24:10] “It’s not a shark tank model. It couldn’t be the furthest thing.” — Chris [24:14] “The deck unlocks a 30-minute zoom.” — Chris  
Mentioned in This Episode:
Chris Cunningham — C2 Ventures
 

Kevin first gives his take on the slap heard across the world and then welcomes guest Mike Shields, Founder of Shields Strategic Consulting, host of Next in Marketing Podcast, and former writer and editor at Business Insider, Digiday, Adweek, and Wall Street Journal. They discuss how the world of online gaming is changing our society, a few important questions to ask as we possibly head into the Metaverse, and how to get to the point where we don’t have a detachment from reality while consuming these things. They also discuss collusion in our browsers, how we protect where our first-party data really goes, and their predictions for Facebook investing heavily in Meta, while ignoring a traditional ad model.
 
Takeaways:
[:44] Will Smith slapping Chris Rock was not okay, and thank goodness it wasn’t Martin Lawrence!
[5:52] How has online gaming changed?
[8:08] Is there real money in the Metaverse?
[9:45] Mike thinks the internet is getting better but is not sure if there will be a full VR replacement.
[11:33] Mike gives his thoughts on the possibility that there will be multiple rooms in the Metaverse.
[18:18] While we are in the initial phases of Metaverse with gaming, how do we get it to come together and make it more real?
[30:36] Because Google is getting a ton of heat from regulators, they’re going to get rid of the cookie, which affects 1,000s of companies and millions of websites.
[32:08] There are so many efforts to try and figure out what we do about targeting the open web and how to replace the cookie, but the money is going to the guys who have first-party data.
[37:08] Mike speaks to the allegations of Google manipulating markets.
[45:02] Is there a lack of diversity in thought now on social media? If so, what can we do about it?
 
Quotes:
“They know how to mine people’s data and how to ratchet up anger and emotions to keep you around.” — Kevin “It’s interesting to me that as a tool for engaging with people, we eliminate all forms of constructive notes on our engagement.” — Kevin “There are so many efforts to try and figure out what we do about targeting the open web and how to replace the cookie, but the money is going to the guys who have first-party data.” — Mike “It doesn't make any sense from an ad serving perspective to serve 10 million ads once when you can serve one ad 10 million times.” — Kevin “I think the virtual goods thing will be big, but I don't know if it's going to be for everyone.” — Mike  
Mentioned in This Episode:
Mike Shields: Twitter | LinkedIn | Substack
Google May or May Not Have Screwed the Entire Internet
Microsoft
Activision Blizzard
Cocaine and Waffles

Mark Naples is the founder of WIT Strategy and has led strategic efforts on behalf of more than 450 companies, complete company re-positioning campaigns, and dozens of corporate and product launches. He joins the show today to talk about keeping your ego checked, why “bro culture” holds back brands, the importance of setting ground rules and keeping your principles honed, and building trust and true rapport with the media. Kevin also shares the wonderful yet horrible experiences he had while running for office!
 
Takeaways:
[9:44] Mark and Kevin talk about a few intense interactions with nameless figureheads about wanting to be on the cover of a magazine, when the focus should first be adding value and establishing trust with the media.
[11:41] Sir John Durham had what Mark calls an “intellectual curiosity that was insatiable, and an emotional connection and empathy that was insatiable.”
[14:40] Mark discusses working independently and getting to choose who he works with, and who he chooses not to work with.
[16:12] Kevin ran for office? He discusses both horrible and wonderful, and wonderfully horrible experiences. Why did Facebook shut down his account during the most crucial week?
[19:41] Does Mark just walk away from the conversation where someone can’t put their ego down, or does he keep a positive perspective?
[21:21] What are some symptoms of “bro culture,” and how does it hold companies and brands back?
[28:36] Your job is to help the reporter get smart about what it is you are offering, and help them understand it better. That is how you’re going to really succeed.
[35:32] How important is it when you’re getting information to be able to pair that up with somebody? How much information do you share with that reporter about the type of interaction that they’re likely to have?
[41:37] Mark mentions two great young journalists, Michael Learmonth and Emily Steele, who are now these hyper-respected people, and which one of them he’s afraid of.
[48:25] What are some of the best practices in building trust with reporters?
[49:01] Where is it going? Is it going to get any better?
 
Quotes:
“To be authoritative, you have to have the respect of your peers and you have to be positioned well in the media.” — Mark “I tell them that you really need to focus on the value you create, not on yourself.” — Mark “Help the reporter get smart and help them understand better what problem you're solving. That’s how you’re going to really succeed.” — Mark  
Mentioned in This Episode:
Sir John Durham
Tribute links to John Durham - Kevin will add
Mark Naples
WIT Strategy
Kate Kaye Explains WTF is Going on With Google
The Social Network

Kate Kaye is an award-winning tech journalist who has published work in many places including MIT Technology Review and NPR. Kate covered the data industry for Ad Age and digital political campaigns for ClickZ. She joins Kevin this week to talk about Google’s Privacy Budget, the Privacy Sandbox Initiative, and how we get people to care about the disruption that is taking place. She explains the different ways industry groups are both hurting and helping their constituents, and how she feels the future of data tracking and privacy will go. Finally, Kate and Kevin discuss the need for more journalists to step and question the narrative so every day people are better equipped and more informed.
 
Takeaways:
[6:09] Kate and Kevin talk about why trade journalism is often disparaged by their industries. Do we need more journalists pushing back, or do we expect this to happen because the publication exists on ad dollars that help prop up the industry itself?
[8:06] Where is the intersection of advertising meeting liability?
[9:26] Kate talks about her piece for Digiday entitled “WTF is Google’s Privacy Budget?” It explores what a privacy budget is, how a privacy budget works, and what problems could arise.
[11:49] The industry is moving away from the old way of tracking people, but what new ways are on the horizon that we have to pay attention to?
[14:15] Google has proposed the Privacy Budget as part of its Privacy Sandbox initiative. What does that mean? And, does Google really care what happens out of its environment?
[17:47] How will this affect the everyday person?
[18:38] Data is defining everything and determining who makes the money and who doesn’t. — Kevin
[25:02] Kate shares her method of writing articles that can help both those hired to understand and wade through these complex privacy issues, and also the everyday common person who just wants to understand from an angle of their safety and privacy.
[30:50] Evil becomes an unintended consequence of power.
[33:52] What constitutes a privacy infringement, and are there groups looking out for our interests inside the Privacy Budget?
[38:34] Google has been reliant on tracking people, so what does Kate think this disruption will be, both short and long term?
[40:32] Are industry trade organizations really helping and bringing a needed solution?
[47:08] How do we get people to pay attention to what is happening with privacy protection and data collections? The movement in privacy that will steer legislators will put more restrictions on data collection and minimization. How will the conversation in business and marketing be shifting about it?
 
Quotes:
“Data is defining everything and determining who makes the money and who doesn’t.” — Kevin “Evil becomes an unintended consequence of power.” — Kevin  
Mentioned in This Episode:
WTF is Google’s Privacy Sandbox?
WTF is Google’s Privacy Budget?
ClickZ
Ad Age
ANA
Past Episodes of TMI
@KateKayeReports