Dr Anita Collins is an award-winning educator, researcher and author, widely recognised for her work in brain development and music education. She is a tireless advocate working in our schools, in our boardrooms and in government consultation, to champion music at a fundamentally human level. We talked about how music helped her process learning difficulties early in life, but that as a young adult, her experience of tertiary education led her to put her instrument down and pivot to teaching and research. We discuss the "industrial model" of education, and why music should be approached differently in schools. We also talk about new research on how groups can achieve "team flow state", advice on how best to go about pursuing music advocacy, and why some myths persist about who gets to call themselves a musician and who doesn't. This conversation was recorded in April 2024. Dr Anita Collins: https://www.anitacollinsmusic.com.au/ Follow Tim Shiel: https://www.instagram.com/timshiel/Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZcu0bzibjU See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.