“The COVID response caused much more harm than good. That’s my position on that, and I came to it by analyzing and reviewing huge amounts of academic research on all sorts of issues: excess mortality, effects on medical services, mental health, effects on the economy, poverty, food insecurity, education.” In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Kevin Bardosh. He is a medical anthropologist and the director of Collateral Global, a London-based think tank focused on improving pandemic response around the world. “Public health has always had this tension between the authoritarian position, and then the more classical liberal, civil society philosophy,” he says. Four years on, what have we learned about our collective response to the COVID crisis? If another pandemic happened tomorrow, how would our societies react? “There still is this very strong industry—a pandemic industry—that thinks that they did a great job, and that people that are criticizing them are spreading misinformation,” Bardosh says. “And I think that that really needs to change.” We discuss the global fallout from the COVID lockdowns, from rising obesity to rising poverty. “All educational gains since 2000 around the world were wiped out with the school closures,” Bardosh says. Views expressed in this video are opinions of the host and the guest, and do not necessarily reflect the views of The Epoch Times.