In this episode of Ascend Radio, host Harry Cayton sits down with Professor Lorraine Daston to explore the intricate world of regulation and rulemaking. The dialogue spans various topics, beginning with risk assessment and mitigation. The speakers debate whether regulation should strive for excellence beyond risk mitigation, with Daston proposing defining excellence by desired outcomes. The discussion extends to compliance measures, institutional friction, and the distinction between thick and thin rules, delving into historical context and real-world implementation challenges faced by regulators.