China’s Premier Li Qiang successfully visited Australia last month. The loan of two more pandas captured headlines, but if one looks closely at how the visit unfolded it’s clear Australia faces a very complex strategic landscape. The Albanese government clearly wants to maintain a stabilised relationship with China under the PM’s manta “cooperative where we can, disagree where we must, and engage in the national interest”.  But what are the benefits and costs of that strategy, and are the trade-offs worth it? Darren is joined once again by Dr Ben Herscovitch of the ANU for a conversation that lays out alternative framings for the choices the Australian government is, and is not, making in how it manages the China bilateral, and whether these choices are in the national interest. A little while ago the podcast crossed 500,000 lifetime downloads! Thanks to all of you for giving up your time to listen. Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Corbin Duncan and theme music composed by Rory Stenning. Relevant links Noah Barkin LinkedIn post on German Economy Minister Habeck’s visit to China: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7210557349697122304/ “A Sustainable Economic Partnership for Partnership for Australia and China”, East Asian Bureau of Economic Research, Crawford School of Public Policy, ANU, May 2024: https://eaber.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/A-Sustainable-Economic-Partnership-for-Australia-and-China.pdf Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, “Statement regarding recent incidents in the South China Sea”, 18 June 2024: https://www.dfat.gov.au/news/media-release/statement-regarding-recent-incidents-south-china-sea Darren Lim and John Ikenberry, “China and the logic of illiberal hegemony”, Security Studies: (ungated) https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4244377  || (gated) https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09636412.2023.2178963 Jennifer Hewett, “The contradictions in Australia’s China policy”, Australian Financial Review, 12 June 2024: https://www.afr.com/policy/foreign-affairs/the-contradictions-in-australia-s-china-policy-20240612-p5jl66 Deutschland 83 (TV series): https://tv.apple.com/au/show/deutschland-83/umc.cmc.4tlfhbbwsfeijwbe74so97qv6 Derisky Business (podcast): https://www.cnas.org/publications/podcast/everyone-loves-tariffs “Epistemic humility” mug on Etsy: https://www.etsy.com/au/listing/1751474343/epistemic-humility-ceramic-mug