In Critical Systems Thinking: A Practitioner's Guide, Michael C. Jackson emphasizes the need for integrating diverse systems methodologies to navigate complexity and uncertainty. Jackson, an emeritus professor of management systems and former dean of the University of Hull Business School, has also served as president of several prominent systems thinking organizations, including the UK Systems Society, the International Federation for Systems Research, and the International Society for the Systems Sciences. His most significant contribution to the field is his development of Critical Systems Thinking (CST), which emphasizes the combined use of different systems approaches to deal with the complexity that leaders face. In a conversation with Martin Reeves, Chairman of the BCG Henderson Institute, Jackson introduces the EPIC process (Explore, Produce, Intervene, and Check), a four-stage, sequential framework to help leaders deploy systems methodologies. Their discussion includes how different systems perspectives can be combined, how theory informs interventions, how organizations are embracing system thinking, barriers to adoption, and the relevance of systems thinking to today’s business environment. Key topics discussed: 2:40 | What systems thinking can offer the traditional MBA toolkit 5:20 | Systems thinking in contemporary business scenarios 6:37 | The EPIC process: Explore, Produce, Intervene, and Check 16:52 | Characteristic tools of systems thinking 17:34 | The five lenses of systems thinking 21:54 | Advancing the agenda of systems thinking Additional inspirations from Michael C. Jackson: Systems Thinking: Creative Holism for Managers (John Wiley & Sons, 2023)Systems Approaches to Management (Springer, 2000)Critical Systems Thinking and the Management of Complexity (Wiley, 2019)Creative Problem Solving: Total Systems Intervention (Wiley, 1991) This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy