Dr Reginald Oduor, Senior Lecturer in Philosophy at the University of Nairobi, discusses Kenya's experience of lockdowns and vaccine mandates with Collateral Global SAB member Toby Green of King's College, London. The impact of the lockdowns on civil rights, the poor, education, and health are discussed -- and also the impacts that this might have into the future, as ethical and political issues mount up. There is a big focus also on the question of how to foster debate in an environment of the censorship of dissent. How to create engagement and ensure proper debate going forward is a key task for academics and those engaged in civil society, and a duty of those with concern for the experience and lives of future generations