In this episode of Chasing Leviathan, PJ and Dr. Mark Roche discuss how various forms of ugliness can heighten the beauty we find within works of art and literature. Dr. Roche provides an overview of various approaches to the ugly, including Christian, Hegellian, and modern traditions, and gives parameters for what is meant by "ugly." Dr. Roche also argues that, while what "subsume" under ugliness may change, the concept itself does not. For a deep dive into Mark Roche's work, check out his book:  Beautiful Ugliness: Christianity, Modernity, and the Arts 👉 https://www.amazon.com/dp/0268207011 Check out our blog on www.candidgoatproductions.com  Who thinks that they can subdue Leviathan? Strength resides in its neck; dismay goes before it. When it rises up, the mighty are terrified. Nothing on earth is its equal. It is without fear. It looks down on all who are haughty; it is king over all who are proud.  These words inspired PJ Wehry to create Chasing Leviathan. Chasing Leviathan was born out of two ideals: that truth is worth pursuing but will never be subjugated, and the discipline of listening is one of the most important habits anyone can develop.  Every episode is a dialogue, a journey into the depths of a meaningful question explored through the lens of personal experience or professional expertise.