In this episode, Xavier Bonilla has a dialogue with Elizabeth Saunders on elites dictating foreign policy. They discuss negative public opinion, the elites comprised of military, administration, and legislators, and the differences with hawks and doves. They talk about McNamara and LBJ in Vietnam, Truman, Korea, and Taiwan, and Bush in Afghanistan and Iraq. They also discuss Obama on Syria, future insider’s games, and many more topics. Elizabeth Saunders is Professor of Political Science at Columbia University. She previously taught in the School of Foreign Service and the Director of the Mortara Center for International Studies, as well as a core faculty member in the Security Studies Program at Georgetown University. She is also a non-resident senior fellow at Brookings Institution. Her main interests focus on the domestic politics of international relations and US foreign policy, especially the role of leaders, the presidency, and the politics of using force. She is the author of two books, including the most recent book, The Insiders’ Game: How Elites Make War and Peace. Website: https://profsaunders.com/ Get full access to Converging Dialogues at convergingdialogues.substack.com/subscribe