Imagine preaching in front of a crowd of protesters holding a banner: “HOW DARE YOU?” That’s what Mark Labberton did every Sunday preaching in the clear, glass-walled sanctuary of First Presbyterian Church in Berkeley, California. In this Conversing Short, Mark reflects on this foundational, animating question that defined his public leadership during his sixteen years as senior pastor of First Pres. About Conversing Shorts: “In between my longer conversations with people who fascinate and inspire and challenge me, I share a short personal reflection, a focused episode that brings you the ideas, stories, questions, ponderings, and perspectives that animate Conversing and give voice to the purpose and heart of the show. Thanks for listening with me.” About Mark Labberton Mark Labberton is the Clifford L. Penner Presidential Chair Emeritus and Professor Emeritus of Preaching at Fuller Seminary. He served as Fuller’s fifth president from 2013 to 2022. He’s the host of Conversing. Show Notes The clear glass walls of First Presbyterian Church in Berkeley, CA “You’re doing everything that you’re doing in public.” “I wanted to welcome the outside, inside.” Berkeley protestors An imaginary poster: “How dare you?” Accepting responsibility, being held to account by the City of Berkeley Preaching in God’s name Mark on the question, “How dare you?”: “And it felt like the question was legitimate. How dare you get this land? Why should it be given over to this purpose? What is it that you're worth? What are you actually bringing to the city? On what grounds can you make such outlandish claims? What are the implications of it? How will it show up that you actually live what you're saying? And therefore, how dare you do this both intrinsically? How dare you do this existentially? How dare you do it theologically? But also, how dare you do it culturally and politically and socially.” “What does it mean in this place at this time, surrounded by this community of believers and unbelievers, skeptics and critics of every kind?” Preaching to the “Cultured Despisers of the Faith” (a term coined by 19th century theologian Friedrich Schleiermacher in The Christian Faith) “Having grown up largely outside the life of the Church … I was one of the cultured despisers.” Representing classic Christian faith in an entirely unclassical community like Berkeley “I felt like if the Christian faith can't show up and make some kind of intelligent, purposeful, meaningful, transformative difference, then there is no case to be made and I should just walk away.” What’s worth giving your life to? Production Credits Conversing is produced and distributed in partnership with Comment Magazine and Fuller Seminary.