After last episode's grim premise, Joe & Brian pull back from the edge and take a look at the other side of the current design industry: what is there that we can feel optimistic about in the current moment? Lots, it turns out.

Brian & Joe discuss the grim state of the UX industry right now. How did we get here? Where do we go from here? Grab a drink before you listen, let's chew on this together. 🍺