Julian is a British psychoanalyst who has worked in the public health sector for many years. In this podcast, he begins by reflecting on how complacent ways of thinking and being are becoming more commonplace, particularly in the consulting and psychotherapeutic world. He discusses a particular clinical case to emphasise this.  Julian then explores the connection between complacency and action and discusses with Simon how dissociation can lead to conformist ways of being. The conversation then reflects more widely on the role of psychoanalysis in society, and in particular the demise of psychoanalytically applied practices in the public sector. Julian holds the view that society needs containers for its more disturbed and long-term 'ill' citizens, for as he says "not everybody gets well". If psychoanalysis gets pushed wholly into the private sector Julian believes there will be a great loss to society (and also to psychoanalysis). As the public sector increasingly becomes a market-led sector and filled with short-term, more market-friendly treatments and fixes (some of which are helpful of course) the space for holding pain, suffering and dysfunction is diminished.    When exploring what it means to work towards a good society, Julian shares his view that a good society needs a 'maternal' public sector, and that the nanny state, to paraphrase Margaret Thatcher, obliterates the mother. Julian asks then what happens to the welfare state, to the health and education system and to social care?     Enjoy this stimulating and rich discussion.   Bio  Julian Lousada is a psychoanalyst and former clinical director Adult department of the Tavistock and Portman Clinic, and former chair of the British Psychoanalytic Council and British Psychoanalytic Federation.  He is an Organisational Consultant in private practice.