Rita Fierro (of Fierro Consulting LLC and DrRitaWrites.com), a multifaceted practitioner of evaluation and facilitation, joins Brian and Carolyn on a deep exploration of the fractal nature of social transformation, trauma and healing, and how our evaluation practices can weave through these complex spaces. From the pursuit of “beloved community” to how we handle our own healing work to working with leaders and being leaders ourselves to what stories we tell and want to be telling to vicarious trauma in evaluation work to what it means to embrace our emotions without letting them drive, we cover it all. Be sure to check out the blog post that inspired and informed this conversation: Social Change is a Fractal Thing Full show notes available on our website This podcast is powered by Pinecast.