What if loss invited us on a voyage?  In this episode, we're joined by Kirsten Oates and Patrick Boland as we continue our chapter-by-chapter exploration with Chapter 2: "The Hero and Heroine's Journey." Patrick Boland and Kirsten Oates, cohost of our sister podcast, Turning to the Mystics, join CAC staff, for a heartfelt conversation. Together, they explore the transformative power of the hero's journey. They talk about the role it plays in our personal growth, emphasizing how embracing challenges and loss can be doorways to our truest selves. Before we dive in to the interview, we catch up with Richard at his hermitage to hear his reflections on the second chapter a decade after he originally wrote it. Patrick Boland is an Executive Coach, Leadership Consultant and Psychotherapist. He is the author of The Contemplative Leader and the co-author of Every Thing is Sacred with Richard Rohr. He lives with his family near Dublin, Ireland. Kirsten Oates is the cohost of our sister podcast Turning to the Mystics with James Finley. She's a Spiritual Director and an Executive Coach who brings wisdom and insight into the intersection of spirituality and leadership. Together with Richard, Kirsten and Patrick are the architects of our newest online course, Falling Upward: Life as a Spiritual Journey. You can learn more about that at our website. Resources: A PDF of the transcript for this episode is available here. Grab a copy of the newly revised version of Falling Upward, with a new foreword by Brené Brown here. To learn more about Patrick's work, visit his website here.  Access a free chapter from Patrick's book, The Contemplative Leader, on the hero's journey here. To connect with Kirsten, visit her here, and check out her CAC podcast, Turning to the Mystics here.