What if the goal of the spiritual journey is to understand suffering?  In this episode, we're joined by Mirabai Starr as we continue our chapter-by-chapter exploration of Falling Upward with Chapter 6: "Necessary Suffering." This episode explores how loss, suffering, and grief can be a transformative spiritual path, leading to deeper connection with the divine and a more authentic self, by urging us to confront pain and surrender to a greater reality. Before we dive in to the interview with Mirabai, CAC staff catch up with Richard at his hermitage to hear his reflections on the sixth chapter a decade after he originally wrote it. Mirabai Starr is an award-winning author of creative non-fiction and contemporary translations of sacred literature. She taught Philosophy and World Religions at the University of New Mexico-Taos for 20 years and now teaches and speaks internationally on contemplative practice and inter-spiritual dialog. A certified bereavement counselor, Mirabai helps mourners harness the transformational power of loss. Her latest book, WILD MERCY: Living the Fierce & Tender Wisdom of the Women Mystics, was named one of the “Best Books of 2019”. She lives with her extended family in the mountains of northern New Mexico. Resources: A PDF of the transcript for this episode is available here. Grab a copy of the newly revised version of Falling Upward, with a new foreword by Brené Brown here. To learn more about Mirabai Starr and Wild Heart, visit her website here. Connect with us: Have a question or thought about this season that you'd like to share with us? Email us: [email protected] Send us a voicemail here: http://www.cac.org/voicemail