How has the interplay between gain and loss shaped your life's journey, and what new possibilities does this open up for you now? In this episode, we're joined by two members of the CAC faculty Dr. Barbara Holmes and Brian McLaren as we continue our chapter-by-chapter exploration of Falling Upward with Chapter 12: "New Problems and New Directions." In this conversation, we explore the continuous journey of transformation and renewal throughout all stages of life, reflecting on personal experiences, the rhythms of loss and gain, and the deep wisdom that guides us through both the first and second halves of life. Before we dive in to the interview with Barbara and Brian, CAC staff members Mike Petrow and Paul Swanson catch up with Richard at his hermitage to hear his reflections on the twelfth chapter a decade after he originally wrote it. About the guests: Dr. Barbara Holmes is a scholar of African American spirituality and mysticism. Dr. Barbara Holmes reveals how the cosmos can expand our limited constructs of religion, race, and power. As faculty at the Center for Action and Contemplation, she teaches how God’s communal presence can inspire imagination and wisdom, especially in times of crisis. She is the author of Race and the Cosmos, Joy Unspeakable, and Crisis Contemplation. She hosts CAC's podcast The Cosmic We. Brian McLaren is the Dean of CAC Faculty. As a former evangelical pastor, Brian is a champion for a more loving, inclusive and contemplative Christianity. A faculty member at the Center for Action and Contemplation, he teaches ways to reconnect with the message Jesus lived and died for—unconditional love. He is the author of Faith After Doubt, The Great Spiritual Migration, and most recently, Life After Doom. He hosts CAC’s podcast Learning How to See. Resources: A PDF of the transcript for this episode is available here. Grab a copy of the newly revised version of Falling Upward, with a new foreword by Brené Brown here. To learn more about Dr. Barbara Holmes, visit her website here. To learn more about Brian McLaren, visit his website here. Grab a copy of Brian's latest book, Life After Doom, here. Connect with us: Have a question or thought about this season that you'd like to share with us? Email us: [email protected] Send us a voicemail here: http://www.cac.org/voicemail