In today's episode Josh Bowen, founder of Astria, and Jon Charbonneau join Mike to discuss the recent launch of Astria and its role in the Celestia ecosystem. The conversation explores how different blockchain architectures are converging toward similar designs. They examine the economics of L1 tokens, the challenges of achieving true decentralization, and debate the future of blockchain L1 differentiation. They close out by discussing how technical constraints and market forces will continue to shape the end game of crypto infrastructure. Resources: Josh Bowen @ DBA Research Day https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5809YJpbhFg Jon Charb https://dba.mirror.xyz/UTPfxWe65dYrUu_RJX-5VkAJypFRyw3AZh6m0dRXYZk - - Follow Jon: https://x.com/jon_charb Follow Josh: https://x.com/Jskybowen Follow Mike: https://x.com/MikeIppolito_ Follow Expansion: https://x.com/ExpansionPod_ Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@expansionpod Subscribe on Apple: http://apple.co/4bGKYYM Subscribe on Spotify: http://spoti.fi/3Vaubq1 Get top market insights and the latest in crypto news. Subscribe to Blockworks Daily Newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/ -- Timestamps: (00:00) Introduction (02:36) Extending Minimal Designs (09:42) Astria's Design (14:38) Purpose Built Infrastructure (24:09) POA Designs (36:22) Aggregation Summit Ad (37:05) What Makes L1 Tokens Valuable? (52:47) ZK's Impact on Astria (57:55) L1 Differentiation - - Disclaimer Expansion was kickstarted by a grant from the Celestia Foundation. Nothing said on Expansion is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Rex, Jon, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.