The story of Laurentian university closing is a sad one, and there are many reasons why that happened. But one reason suggested by many is the financial pressure that COVID has caused on universities. In Australia, a number of universities decided to stop their support for geology programs. As a country that relies a lot on mining, this seemed to be a short-sighted decision. COVID has undoubtedly accelerated the closure of many geology departments. Today we are joined by Pete Betts from Monash University, who suggests other reasons why geology programs are struggling to keep their place. Maybe it had more to do with the fact that we find it hard to engage the wider society with regards to why our science is important and what value it actually provides.