BillDesk does not have a CEO. Instead, it just has three co-founders: MN Srinivasu, Ajay Kaushal and Karthik Ganapathy. And they don’t have separate designations. In fact, BillDesk has no formal hierarchies or designations. People are hired as members of a team. That’s it. More than two decades after they started the company, the three co-founders continue to work from a single desk in the same room. For a 23-year-old organisation that handles over $150 billion in payments, BillDesk is surprisingly lean at just over 800 employees. And that's not the only thing contrarian about it. It has been profitable for over a decade and a half now.  When I asked Vasu—that’s how others usually address Srinivasu—how old he was, his answer was, “BillDesk is 23, I am 55.” For this episode, we threw in many new questions based on the subscriber feedback I’d been receiving. What often keeps founders going is the urge to prove something. What is it for Vasu? How has his view of a leadership team evolved? How does he prefer to be “managed upward” by his reportees How has what excites or challenges him changed Managing people isn’t what founders have in when they start out. And yet, it is the most important thing that determines their success. How has Vasu’s managing style or philosophy evolved since he started Billdesk in 2000? Over the entire conversation, we also talk about: Why BillDesk doesn’t handle person-to-person payments, for instance, via UPI. How the three co-founders hired and coached their first 100 employees Why BillDesk does not incentivise chasing glory metrics Why the three co-founders continue to work from a single table even today Snigdha breaks down the story of Disney's decline, on our business podcast Daybreak. Listen here. This is Episode 25 of First Principles, with MN Srinivasu — The Ken’s fortnightly leadership podcast. The Ken is India's first subscriber-only business journalism platform. Check out our deeply reported long-form stories, insightful newsletters, original podcasts and much more here.