The Brumbies and the Reds, two powerhouses of Australian rugby both historically and right now in the wake of the 2021 Super Rugby AU final. But why is that so? What made these two teams so dominant back in the 1990s and what was that correlation with the Wallaby success of the Golden Era? We speak for the first time with foundation Brumby and former Wallaby Rod Kafer about how the ACT became a hotbed for excellence that made the Brumbies instantly successful. We also hear from their first coach Rod McQueen and Queensland icons and Wallabies John Eales and Michael Lynagh about what made Queensland so different. Dig in.