A fly comes in the classroom, and panic reigns. In discussing invertebrates, many are revolted. In confronting them, many become hysterical. But the invertebrate world is incredible. How then should we communicate this world to young people? How best do we educate and enthuse about these animals? How do we help children to make sense of their distrust of these animals without being dismissive, and fight back against the overwhelming societal distrust for all that buzzes and crawls? What works? And to what extent do we want to lean into gristly and the grim (naming no names, starfish)? Jack Baker from Pangolin: The Conservation Podcast joins Tom to discuss teaching about invertebrate animals, to share success stories, and generally have a lovely old time.