How can we thrive wearing many hats? Viv talks to the author and co-founder and President of the Women's Equality Party, Catherine Mayer, about shifting emphasis to achieve greatest effect. Catherine shares how having an awareness of your audience and the room you’re in can make it a good experience for you and boost your voice within it. Catherine reveals that while she makes calculations about where to pitch her arguments, they all stay true to her beliefs. Catherine lost her husband, the musician, Andy Gill - a founding member of Gang of Four - in 2020 to suspected Covid-19 and she tells Viv how she’s navigated grief over the last two years. Their interview is recorded at the Primadonna Festival, which was founded by Catherine in 2019.  Find out more about Catherine Mayer in her latest book, Good Grief: Embracing Life at a Time of Death A new updated edition of Viv's book, How to Own the Room is out now. @vivgroskop