In Leading Beyond Ego Podcast Episode 3, Thor Olafsson interviews Katrijn van Oudheusden about Selfless Leadership. ‘We've all been conditioned from the time we're born into this world to create a constructed ego. It's not our fault that it happened, it just happened. We need the identity that comes with it, but when we fully and totally identify with it, is where problems are created and you're saying we can make the step to realise that this construct is a bit of an illusion even though we need it, we can also let go of it and not have it control our lives. We realise that if you relax into it and just allow yourself to be lived, all judgement falls away, all guilt and shame fall away.’’  - Katrijn van Oudheusden