In this episode Naomi talks to Conrad Murray, Founder and Artistic Director of Battersea Arts Centre’s Beatbox Academy about the importance of leaders of co-creative practice having solid art form skills.  Conrad talks about how important it is for the young people who he works with to see him utilise his art form skills. He has been on his own journey with his art form, saying he used to be the worst, but he really wanted to do it and that has driven him to practice and refine his skills. He also knows his limits art form wise and what he is really good at and encourages young people to find their strengths artistically.  He describes how he breaks down and then scaffolds the learning of beatboxing for the young people he works with. Conrad also talks through the journey from teaching art form skills to enabling people to co-create original material every week. He has complete beginners working alongside people who have been beatboxing for years. He notices that people are supporting and helping each other in the development of their art form skills. He talks about how he has created a culture and ritual that repeats every week. Conrad describes the importance of being open about his own journey as an artist, so people can see him really trying, so that it might inspire them to do better than him. He feels passionately that artists need to have reached a level of mastery over their art form before they attempt to co-create that art form with anyone else. He argues this mastery is inspiring for young people.  He talks about growing up on a council estate and knowing how to code switch in different contexts. He thinks that artists need to have high aspirations for themselves in order to inspire people that they work with. In order to take co-creation seriously, you need to take your own art seriously. He saw himself as a performer first and then grew into leading co-creative sessions. He sees leading the co-creative sessions as a higher calling, but he combines leadership skills with his pre-existing art form skills.  Naomi Alexander is the CEO and Artistic Director of Brighton People's Theatre . Her AHRC funded research Let's Create: Do we know how to? identified 20 qualities, skills and responsibilities that are important for artists leading co-creative practice. The report and illustrations are available here. X: https://twitter.com/naomi_ontheatre IG: https://www.instagram.com/naomi.ontheatre/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomiontheatre/ Conrad Murray is the Founder and Artistic Director of the Beatbox Academy which runs at Battersea Arts Centre X: https://twitter.com/rODIUMrECORDSIG: https://www.instagram.com/rodium/ https://www.instagram.com/bac_beatbox_academy/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conrad-murray-a4b4ba183/ #co-creation #theatre #leadership #arts #artist #truetoyourself #letscreate #embodied