In this fascinating podcast, Dominic Green talks to author and foreign policy analyst Robert Kaplan. They look back at ‘The Coming Anarchy’ after a quarter of a century, and trace the ambitions and disasters of the last three decades of American empire, from the early Nineties to the War on Terror and the retreat of the Obama and Trump years. If you listen carefully, you can hear the clink of coffee cups on saucer. If you listen even more carefully, you’ll hear a reminder of Kipling’s ‘Recessional’, with its warning that all empires must dissolve: ‘Lest we forget.’ Listen and learn.