How did South Africans and Soviets think about how to manage difference--in their home contexts and in decades of conversation with one another? In this episode of the Matrix podcast, Hilary Lynd, a PhD candidate in history, discusses the changing relationship between South Africa and the USSR from the 1960s through the 1980s. In this interview, Julia Sizek, Matrix Postdoctoral Scholar, and Lynd discuss how anti-apartheid activists were initially inspired by a Soviet model for a multinational society before a surprising about-face toward the end of the apartheid and the USSR.  A transcript of this interview can be found at https://live-ssmatrix.pantheon.berkeley.edu/research-article/hilary-lynd.