What can be done to reform The Pentagon? Returning to Midrats to discuss the challenge of real reform to our military bureaucratic establishment will be Steve Deal. Steve Deal, Captain, U.S. Navy (Ret.) served as Deputy Chief of Staff to the Secretary of the Navy and Deputy Chief Learning Officer for the Department of the Navy.  During his twenty-seven years on active duty, he commanded Patrol Squadron Forty-Seven, in Ali Air Base, Iraq; Joint Provincial Reconstruction Team Khost, Afghanistan; and Patrol and Reconnaissance Wing Ten in Whidbey Island, Washington.  Showlink Transforming to Innovate for National Security Summary In this conversation, Sal and Steve Deal discuss the pressing need for reform within the Pentagon, emphasizing the importance of political will, leadership, and human capital in driving change. They explore historical contexts, the challenges posed by bureaucracy, and the necessity of engaging the public in national security discussions. The dialogue highlights the critical role of education and talent management in the military, as well as the need for accountability and innovative thinking to overcome systemic inertia. Takeaways Political will is essential for true change in the Pentagon.The inertia of bureaucracy often prevents necessary reforms.Human capital is a critical component of national security.Leadership must be ruthless to drive real change.Engaging the public is vital for national security discussions.Education and talent management are key to military transformation.Tacit collusion can hinder innovation within the defense sector.A new Goldwater Nichols is needed for future reforms.We must challenge existing assumptions about military recruitment.The role of people in defense innovation cannot be overlooked. Chapters 00:00: Introduction and Overview of Pentagon Reform 03:06: Political Will and Historical Context for Change 06:43: The Role of People in Defense Innovation 10:51: Challenges of Human Capital in the Military 14:26: Need for Holistic Change in Defense Structure 18:08: The Inertia of Bureaucracy and Resistance to Change 22:51: Leadership and Accountability in National Security 26:33: Education and Talent Management in the Navy 30:40: The Importance of Engaging the Public 34:46: Consulting and Internal Change Agents 39:51: Tacit Collusion and the Need for Accountability 43:54: The Future of Defense Strategy and Leadership 48:44: Closing Thoughts and Future Directions