Today two anonymous friends of the podcast, Indian Bronson and "Hannah" join Erik Torenberg to make their moral case for Donald Trump. They discuss why swapping Kamala Harris for Joe Biden could cause a "reprise of Obama 2012", the immigration restrictionist viewpoint, and the "aesthetic baggage" that often comes along with the radical leaders capable of ushering in change.  🔥 Apply to join over 400 Founders and Execs in the Turpentine Network: https://hmplogxqz0y.typeform.com/to/JCkphVqj -- RECOMMENDED PODCASTS: 🎙️1 to 100 | Hypergrowth Companies Worth Joining Every week we sit down with the founder of a hyper-growth company you should consider joining. Our goal is to give you the inside story behind breakout, early stage companies potentially worth betting your career on. This season, discover how the founders of Modal Labs, Clay, Mercor, and more built their products, cultures, and companies. Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/70NOWtWDY995C8qDqojxGw Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1762756034 - Complex Systems with Patrick McKenzie Patrick McKenzie (@patio11) talks to experts who understand the complicated but not unknowable systems we rely on. You might be surprised at how quickly Patrick and his guests can put you in the top 1% of understanding for stock trading, tech hiring, and more. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3Mos4VE3figVXleHDqfXOH Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/complex-systems-with-patrick-mckenzie-patio11/id1753399812 -- SPONSORS: 💻 Building an enterprise-ready SaaS app? WorkOS has got you covered with easy-to-integrate APIs for SAML, SCIM, and more. Join top startups like Vercel, Perplexity, Jasper & Webflow in powering your app with WorkOS. Enjoy a free tier for up to 1M users! Start now at https://bit.ly/WorkOS-TCR 🌐 Ready to achieve your 2024 goals? Start learning a new language with Babbel in just three weeks. Enjoy app lessons, live classes, and podcasts designed for real-world conversations. Get up to 60% off at Babbel.com/zen 💥 Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist. -- LINKS: Moment of Zen w/ Noah Smith - Case for Biden’s Legacy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntTPeo5ciXo Moment of Zen w/ Hannah and Antonio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwS22WZ4gzY Moment of Zen w/ Richard Hanania - Trump/Biden Predictions with Richard Hanania: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mKjFeUJXOI Upstream with Erik Torenberg - Bryan Caplan on Housing Regulation, Fertility, and Crime: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8jeiGz8Qs4 Indian Bronson Substack:  https://indianbronson.substack.com/ Center for American Progress Presentation - America’s Electoral Future: https://www.americanprogress.org/article/americas-electoral-future-3/ Norman Potter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Potter Sam Brinton:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Brinton -- FOLLOW US ON X: @eriktorenberg (Erik) @Indian_Bronson @turpentinemedia (Turpentine) TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (02:55) The Moral Case for Trump (03:05) Kamala Harris and the Biden Administration (04:19) The Role of the American Presidency (05:03) The Problem with Unaccountable Bureaucracy (05:27) The Impact of Voter Preferences on Policy (09:40) The Obama Era and Its Aftermath (11:00) The Case for Trump 2024 (13:04) National Identity (17:24) Sponsor: WorkOS | Babbel (21:20) The Consequences of Unchecked Immigration (28:05) Sponsor: Squad (30:38) The Need for a Common Civic Culture (37:15) Election Legitimacy and Voter Fraud (37:54) Illegal Immigration (39:23) Quality of Life in Different Cities (40:21) Law Enforcement (41:13) Immigration and Labor Force (48:39) Cultural Assimilation and National Identity (50:41) The Aesthetic Baggage of Trump's Character (1:01:28) Historical Context of Bombasity and Violence in American Politics