The IPBES Global Assessment showed that governance is one of the major indirect drivers of global biodiversity loss. In this episode, we look at the power (and limits) of laws and regulations - important elements of governance. Is law an effective tool to tackle the nature crisis? What role can law play both nationally and internationally? Can we use law to bring about the transformative change needed to protect nature? Rob talks to Dr. Michelle Lim, Senior Lecturer at the Macquarie Law School in Sydney, Australia and an expert on the intersection between nature and law. Music: River Feeling by Kalaji (Mark Coles Smith) To find out more about IPBES, head to www.ipbes.net or follow us on social media @IPBES.