In Episode #44, Ross is joined by Marina Willer – graphic designer, filmmaker, and Partner at the world’s largest independent design studio. Marina has led the design of major identities for Amnesty International, Tate, and Oxfam, among many others. More recently she led the rebrand of Battersea, one of​ ​Britain's oldest and most famous animal rescue centres, and Rolls-Royce. Willer's first feature film, Red Trees, premiered at the 2017 Cannes Film Festival and was released worldwide by Netflix in 2018. Ross and Marina discuss why experiences outside design make for better designers, and how to create brands that are more adaptable and built to last.