In Episode #48, Ross is joined by DJ Stout, Partner at acclaimed international design consultancy Pentagram and principal of their Austin, Texas office. In 1998 Stout was recognised as one of the “100 Most Important People in Photography.” He has also been selected for The I.D. Fifty – an annual listing of design innovators – and recognised as an AIGA Fellow for his exceptional contributions to the field of graphic design. He has authored three books – The Pictures of Texas Monthly Twenty-Five Years, The Amazing Tale of Mr. Herbert and his Fabulous Alpine Cowboys Baseball Club, and Variations on a Rectangle–his forty-year design retrospective. Ross and DJ discuss why logos don’t matter, why he offers 30 or more logo options to his clients, and what Texas has taught him about building brands and telling stories.