Summary In this episode, Andy talks with one of the gurus of governance, Ross Garland, co-author of the Project, Program, and Portfolio Governance Guide. They discuss the importance of governance in project management and how it differs from technical aspects like scope and risk management. Ross explains Cobb's paradox and why projects still fail despite knowing how to prevent their failure. They also delve into the principles of governance, such as treating change differently from business as usual and ensuring a single point of accountability for each project or program. The guide provides practical tools and templates for implementing effective governance. Sound Bites "Cobbs Paradox: We know why projects fail. We know how to prevent their failure. So why do they still fail?" "Most projects muddle through, they get through one way or another, they produce an output, they produce assets. And particularly if they're government projects, ministers tend to be very happy because they get to cut the ribbon." "One of the loneliest positions in the world you can have is to be a project manager who needs to get decisions made, and when they look up in the governance structure, all they see is blue sky." "Some organizations still have the concept that the experts in project management should be the people leading projects. Now, if you do that, what you end up with is lovely assets, but not business outcomes." "There tends to be in some organizations a very unfortunate tendency to think that accountability is about who to blame when things go wrong. And that is not the case. It's about empowerment." "A single point of accountability is essential for the success of a project or program." Chapters 00:00 Introduction 02:09 Start Of Interview 02:20 What Is Cobb's Paradox And Why Does It Persist? 05:05 How Do You Describe Governance, And What Is It Not? 07:02 How Do You Differentiate Projects, Programs, And Portfolios? 10:05 How Does Your Guide Compare To PMI's Practice Guide On Governance? 13:25 What Is The Importance Of Treating Change Differently From Business As Usual? 15:32 Can You Explain The Single Point Of Accountability Principle? 20:32 Real-World Example: Replacing A Payroll System 25:41 What Feedback Have You Received From People Using The Guide? 27:46 Where To Find The Guide 28:46 End Of Interview 29:07 Andy's Comments After The Interview 33:30 Outtakes Learn More You can learn more about Ross and his guide at P3gqa.com/. If you’d like more on this subject, check out: Episode 387, with Atif Rafiq about his book on delivering projects Prepare to Pass Your Project Management Certification Exam We regularly help people just like you prepare and pass their PMP and CAPM certification exams. If you or someone you know is thinking about pursuing project management certification, contact us! We'd love to help you earn your credential. Learn more and enroll at i-leadonline.com/PMSeries. Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast! Talent Triangle: Ways of Working Topics: governance, project management, program management, portfolio management, decision-making, accountability, project sponsor   The following music was used for this episode: Music: Tranceverse by Sascha Ende License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license Music: Chillhouse by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license