There’s been a lot of talk about controlling cloud costs by bringing workloads back to the datacenter, you know, private cloud. The three of us discuss what’s going on here. Also, surveys consistently show that only about half of developers are doing continuous integration (CI), and fewer are doing continuous delivery (CD). Can that be real? Ben doesn’t think so. We also discuss how secure software supply chain thinking might change the tight coupling between CI/CD, making that slash back into a wall between the two: CI|CD. Also, Ben reveals his cartography background.