As the sun sets on the sixth administration and a new era for a new government looms, Tshidi Madia sat down with outgoing Public Enterprise Minister, Pravin Gordhan for a candid interview on his life as a political activist and member of government. He reflects on the lessons that can be learned from the 1994 Interim Constitution and the formation of CODESA during this transition. He speaks about the ‘State Capture’ years and the work they have put in to recapture and reform the state. He shares his thoughts on the MK party leadership and if the ANC will be able to restore itself to its former glory. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.