The war in Ukraine has evolved a huge amount since it began nearly 2 years ago, not least in terms of the equipment now being used on the front lines. This has been most starkly seen in the use of drones, as these unmanned aerial technologies are now at the forefront of reconnaissance and combat operations for both sides. Ukraine’s drone industry, once chaotic and decentralised, is now one of the most significant in the world. Experts are looking to Ukraine to see how drones are being used in the war, and many see their use as the future of warfare more generally. In this episode, we speak with drone expert Federico Borsari, a Leonardo fellow at the Transatlantic Defense and Security Program at the Centre of European Policy Analysis (CEPA). His work looks at Transatlantic Defense and Security dynamics with a focus on unmanned technologies and their military implications, and he has written a number of fascinating reports on how their use in Ukraine is at the forefront of innovation in the sector. Check out insights.Kyivindependent.com for more in depth analysis of the War in Ukraine, and follow The Kyiv Independent on Twitter and Facebook, and Instagram to get latest news and to stay up to date with our coverage. You can find Message Heard on our website at messageheard.com, and follow us on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook to never miss a show. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices