In this episode, we excitingly continue our conversation with the renowned Judith Butler. She takes us through her objection to the so-called opposition between surface reading and the hermeneutics of suspicion, describes what she calls “the relational move,” and animates for us her pedagogical approach for teaching psychoanalysis in the academic classroom. It was such a joy for us; hopefully, it would be for you too. This episode was produced independently of institutional support cover art by Vlado Paunovic music: https://www.fesliyanstudios.com