An absolutely jam-packed episode on the Tory leadership contest and the US Election VP debate. Alex Andreou and Kenny Campbell are joined by Guardian quill-wielder Zoe Williams, US omni-expert Brian Klaas, and More In Common gros fromage Luke Tryl to dig out the genuinely interesting stuff from these debates (and there is plenty of genuinely interesting stuff). We craft two political silk purses from a couple of sow's ears. We're also knitting – see how seamlessly we stitch such disparate subjects together? On both sides of the Pond, important debates; on both sides of the Pond, vaguely competent performances but not so much excitement. But what can we glean from the US Vice-Presidential clash, if it can be described as a clash, and what are the takeaways from the Tory leadership speeches in Birmingham? Brian Klaas: “What is striking about [the VP debate] is what it tells you about the campaigns’ goals. Normally, when a campaign thinks it’s down in a race, they come out swinging… But both campaigns think they’re in a safe position, which is very odd, because one of them is wrong and we don’t know which one.” Brian Klaas: “A lot of professional political analysts misunderstand the public, because they think the public views politics in the same way they do. Which is that you win arguments by having better facts and making appeals to policy. A lot of politics is impressionistic.  Zoe Williams: “Kemi Badenoch’s pitch is: I’m going to be as unpleasant as I can possibly be and then deny I said it. That is extraordinary. There are huge swathes of the political class in which, to deny outright that you said a thing, which you did say, is disbarring. She’s singing to a different hymn book.” Zoe Williams: “Jenrick is not that clever, that’s the problem. He does wrong-foot himself constantly. A huge amount of his most controversial output is accidental.”  Luke Tryl: "Our research shows that Reform voters might actually be the hardest group for the Conservatives to win back. Only one-in-ten would even consider voting Conservative again during this parliament. Calls to Action Check out More In Common and their fantastic work to build a more inclusive world. Grin and Share It: What happened when Denver treated migrants with respect ? Good things, that's what. Subscribe to Brian Klaas' fascinating Substack, The Garden of Forking Paths. Consistently great writing on consistently captivating topics. Want some more? You can track us down on Facebook and Twitter as @quietriotpod, or hop over to Bluesky for our starter pack action. If email is your thang, our address is [email protected]. And we even have a website, www.quietriotpod.com. Amazing. We run a tight ship at Quiet Riot so, IF YOU CAN AFFORD TO CONTRIBUTE, WE'D BE EXTREMELY HAPPY. Click HERE for easy instructions and potential rewards. Yes, REWARDS. We'll stop with the shouty uppercase letters now, sorry for any upset :-) Oh, we are Naomi Smith, Alex Andreou and Kenny Campbell, in cahoots with SandStone Global. But you knew that. x Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices