Ralph welcomes Mike Ferner from Veterans for Peace to discuss their work pushing for a ceasefire in Gaza and mobilizing their members to obstruct the gears of our military-industrial complex. Then, Ralph speaks with criminal defense attorney Leonard Goodman about a major First Amendment case that he's fighting in Florida as well as the Justice Department's tradition of targeting political dissenters.  Mike Ferner served in the Navy during the Vietnam War, and he is former National Director and current Special Projects Coordinator for Veterans for Peace. He is the author of Inside the Red Zone: A Veteran for Peace Reports from Iraq. Veterans for Peace, listeners, might provoke you to say—well, why is there another veterans organization needed? Doesn't the American Legion, the Veterans of Foreign Wars fit the bill? Well, as other listeners know, those two gigantic groups have been very closely aligned with the Pentagon, they don't seem to ever see a war or an armed incursion that they don't like from the U.S. Empire. Ralph Nader Every conflict is going to wind up ending at some point with talks and negotiations. And it's a question of—how many people do you want to kill and wound, and how much suffering do you want to cause, before you say enough and sit down at the table? That happens in every war.  Mike Ferner It's not like we've got some kind of democracy, and our national policy reflects what people want to do. It's that the people who are running the show from the arms industries and so forth, they're the ones that make the political contributions, they're the ones that make the money. And those are the ones that we hold up as the mad men arsonists who are running around the world setting fires left and right. And we're running around with a bucket brigade trying to stop them. So unfortunately they've got the upper hand, but Veterans for Peace and other parts of the peace movement are doing everything that we can to change that. Mike Ferner Leonard Goodman is a Chicago criminal defense lawyer, an adjunct professor of law at DePaul University College of Law, where he teaches Federal Criminal Law, and a member of the Advisory Board of the Center on Wrongful Convictions at Northwestern University College of Law. He also founded the Leonard C. Goodman Institute for Investigative Reporting, which provides editorial and financial support to independent journalists pursuing in-depth investigative projects. [Penny Hess, Omali Yeshitela, and Jesse Nevel’s] homes were raided, and they're now under federal indictment, facing up to 15 years in prison with absolutely no notice, no letter being sent saying, "Hey, we think because you went to Moscow that you need to register." Nothing. So what you talk about is a two-tiered justice system. Leonard Goodman In Case You Haven’t Heard with Francesco DeSantisNews 6/19/24 1. Reuters reports that the American Defense Department ran a clandestine anti-vaccine campaign during the height of the COVID-19 pandemic, with the aim of undermining China. Specifically, this program sought to discredit the efficacy of China’s Sinovac vaccine. This operation began under the Trump Administration, but continued until late 2021, well into the Biden Administration. This misinformation campaign targeted Southeast Asia in general and the Philippines in particular, where the virus claimed the lives of nearly 50,000 people by November 2021. A senior military officer involved in the program told Reuters “We weren’t looking at this from a public health perspective…We were looking at how we could drag China through the mud.” 2. In more China news, the Financial Times reports “President Xi Jinping told European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen that Washington was trying to goad Beijing into attacking Taiwan.” President Xi went on to tell von der Leyen that China would not take the bait. If true, it would not be the first time the U.S. has baited a foreign competitor into a proxy war.