New small boat crossings legislation will be “very black and white”, the Northern Ireland secretary Chris Heaton-Harris has said. Speaking to podcast host Sophy Ridge, he said the new laws will mean that people who come to the UK illegally will be banned from claiming asylum. We also hear from former Chief of the General Staff Lord Dannatt, who said sending weaponry to Ukraine “almost certainly” depletes the UK's defence capability but that it's important to support the country in its war with Russia. Our political correspondent Liz Bates and programme editor Scott Beasley join Sophy to analyse this week’s interviews. Podcast Producer: Soila Apparicio Editor: Philly Beaumont