In this episode Peter Garretson talks with Dr. Kurt "Spuds" Vogel, NASA Director of Space Architectures, about NASA's Moon to Mars Objectives and NASA's just-released Blueprint for Sustained Human Presence and exploration throughout the Solar System. They discuss the NASA organization, the difference between an objective vs capabilities based approach, what it means to 'architect from the right and execute from the left, the significance of the objectives, and the collaborative process to get there. They outline how the plan seeks to be robust across administrations and alternate budget futures. They close by focusing on the significance of objectives for science, applied science, science enabling, and infrastructure objectives, and in particular the step-change of including a 'robust Cislunar economy' and an explicit NASA goal to enable 'Commerce and Space Development' by deliberately fostering 'the expansion of the economic sphere beyond Earth orbit to support U.S. industry and innovation.'